In Conversation with Ravi Singhania, Managing Partner of Singhania & Partners

In this interview we speak with Ravi Singhania about making e-courts more practical; the efficient practicing model of the western judicial systems; and the growing potential of document-only online dispute resolution for commercial disputes.

Would you please share with us the initial years of your journey in the legal industry? 

You know my journey started a bit early being a second-generation lawyer. I saw my father in my schooling days getting ready for the courts. He was a litigator and he started as a litigator so seeing a lawyer then was very different from what you see of lawyers in different hues today but it was a very interesting journey seeing him finding warmth in the clients whom he serviced and the kind of respect he got. So I definitely thought it was a profession I would want to be in. But interestingly over the years my interest in Finance and Accounting grew much more than in pure law and at one stage I was deviating towards Management or a Chartered Accountancy program. But as journey takes it finally I did become a lawyer.

At what point in life did you decide to pursue law and whom do you consider your guiding North Star in this journey?

Law was something I was definitely very keen for. But my interest in Finance and Management was pushing me towards a managerial program. I studied B.Com from Shri Ram College of Commerce where everybody only had two pursuits, either you become a CA or you pursued MBA post your undergraduate degree. The way MBA cut-throat competition was, I thought it was not a healthy program to get into where everybody was trying to scramble on top of the other. I also saw my friends from the CA fraternity faltering and failing successively because of the low intake in the CA profession. I realized this was not for me and I would rather do something more generalist, so I switched back to the law mode and in the final year of my B.Com, I was sure I wanted to do Law.

Mr Singhania, are there any memorable experiences from those days, perhaps of your internship or anything else that you’d like to share with us?

Well in my time, there was no such thing as an internship in those days. I passed out from Law in 1993 and at that time one only joined the profession after clearing the LL.B exams. But coming from a legal background, I had the privilege of working with my father throughout my college days—three years during B.Com and then three years while I was pursuing law—so I was at his office everyday after college. This was not formally recognized as an internship but now I look back and see, it was a practical internship for me for 6 years even before I joined the profession with the Bar degree.

Coming to one of your practice areas, what is the state of Litigation and Alternative Dispute Resolution in India in the current COVID-19 environment?

I think right now for most of the lawyers it is a very difficult time and even for the large firms it is not an easy time. Initially the courts were only taking absolutely urgent matters but now they are taking more cases throughout the country. In Bangalore and other cities where the incidences of Covid-infection were lower, the courts had started physical appearances both at the High Court and the District Court levels but cities like Mumbai and other cities have been shut since March. That significantly reduces the opportunities for lawyers to represent their clients before the court. But I think this has given a different opportunity to the entire legal system here. This is the time now when we can look at what we were doing wrong, and also what we can now do differently to expedite the legal system. Most people domestically as well as internationally when they think of our legal system they think it is mired with backlogs and delays and almost like justice [delayed is justice] denied. In these circumstances, I think the e-courts, which were being contemplated for a long time have suddenly become a reality. The question is can we make them practical. Number of lawyers don't have the understanding of using electronic media to connect with the courts or the litigants. But I think that can be eased, that pain can be eased and the judicial system can be far more efficient in the manner in which we [are] doing [things]. The lawyers don’t need to run to different courts; the courts can more systematically plan their day as to how many hearings they hear. I think what might be useful is to look at systems in some of the western countries where there is a requirement that you file your heads of arguments ahead of time, that you have a limited time allotted to both the sides for their arguments and there is a scheduled hearing when the matters take place and the adjournments are not granted so easily. I think those are the systems that we need to put in place today, coupled with the video-conferencing and virtual courts and I think our system could go a long way. 

What are your views about the potential of Online Dispute Resolution and document-only ODR? What do you think is the way ahead for such platforms?

I think a lot of commercial disputes could be document-only, in real terms there are no oral agreements amongst the parties. In the real commercial world there is a [proper] paper trail and there are documents. I feel a lot of the disputes could be resorted to document-only dispute resolution. In fact currently also the ICANN (Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers) the internet body which resolves domain disputes, there the arbitrations are document-only. They do not allow oral hearings or do not have evidence by any other way except by submission of documents. I think this could be reality in many more commercial disputes and [this could] reduce the time the courts take to deliver justice.  

What can law firms do today to ensure they survive in an era of disruption?

There is a famous author, Richard Susskind and he has published some horrible books, if I may so, [one of them talks about] the end of the legal profession and the like. And the words they’ve used are metaphorical and I think there is a lot of scope for efficiency in our legal profession, which unfortunately is not there for various reasons. And this is what the law firms need to look at that this is a service, a very noble profession where you’re rendering services to the clients but at the same time there are a lot of things we need to change in the way we practice our profession, [for instance] the dependence on the arguing counsels or the senior counsels in hearings because the courts have limited time, which increases the cost for the clients significantly and creates certain biases in the system as to who is appearing for whom and that needs to change. And we need to look at legal services as a product. Not everything requires state-of-the-art creative thinking, a lot of things are routine services, which the legal profession can give to the business and the common man for justice. And we need to evolve our profession to bifurcate where do we need that brain surgeon kind of thinking and new ideas, and which are the services which can be commoditized. Not commoditized in a bad way but in a way where justice is available to the common man. 

What would be your advice to the next generation of lawyers left in the lurch because of the pandemic?

I think if you look at the current situation and decide your future that would be a very sad way to look at things. In history, there have been a number of instances which are once in a lifetime kind of instances but that does not mean that life does not exist beyond those. This pandemic is a horrible situation for most people not only for lawyers. A lot of professions and businesses have gone under right now but I think these would come back again. It is time for the young lawyers to think about how they would want to run their practice and how they would want to shape their career post-pandemic. Is the only way to act is like lawyers in the traditional sense or is there something more than that, that you can do. Some of those choices as to whether you want to be in-house or corporate or litigation, how do you want to shape your career; a lot of these questions one would need to think about and [I am certain] there will be a lot of opportunities for these youngsters. Definitely the next few years will be difficult but I see the profession as still being very important and relevant to society and [it will] stay there for a long time. 

As a managing partner of a law firm, what would you say is more important—more practical experience or a good LL.M degree with a specialization? 

My question for the youngsters would be what did they do in their undergraduate or graduate programs of law, how did they shape themselves, what efforts did they make in their career. Usually when you come out of school and think of college, you think of a fun time. It is definitely a fun time but after the party is over, for the first 3 to 6 months you still have a 5-6 years of journey of becoming a lawyer [ahead of you]. Did you spend your summers and other vacations working to learn more or did you spend your time travelling the world? Both are great options and I think a combination of that [along with] the extracurricular activities [that] you take [matters]. Not everybody is able to reach some of the best schools and a number of schools, apart from the few coveted ones, are also great schools with great teachers. I did my law from Campus Law Centre and I still very fondly remember some very good teachers from my time and I had a good learning at CLC. Same way if they are able to utilize their time well for the five years, I don’t think they need to do any program of LL.M or anything else. However, having said that and if they want to go ahead and learn, specialize, [or go] overseas for education or do something more, LL.M is not a bad program but I would definitely recommend that they have a gap, they work for a few years at a law firm or with a counsel, hone their practical skills and once they understand the law a bit more, then they go for their masters program. It would be far more relevant for them.

There are no low hanging fruits in the legal profession. Competitive salary packages either come after years of experience or after working with big names. Please tell us your thoughts on the subject.

I think lawyers are a privileged community today but not everyone who joins the legal profession is very privileged. Definitely the law firms have made the profession more lucrative for young lawyers to come and the compensation they are paying is pretty decent for a young person’s start and it can compete with an engineer, a doctor, or a CA or any other profession. Obviously the benchmark here is getting into a good law school [that] determines the kind of compensation [one can get] later on; however, even if you didn’t go to good law schools but did some good work during your degree program [it] definitely can get you good placements. Only difference is if you join some individual counsel at the high court or district courts, there remuneration is far lower and the ability to pay is far lower. So, that’s a choice you are making if you are looking at career in litigation, investing further, working with a counsel at the counsel’s chambers, in the courts, that’s not a bad idea. It is just that your compensation gets deferred for some more time. There are different options for different people and I have seen some of the very bright students who could have gotten offers from any of the   tier-1 firms sometimes they choose to not pursue the money but invest more [time] or hone their skills with an arguing counsel at the courts or in the judge's chambers. So there are many choices and it all depends on the individual. [You need] to figure out what you are looking for and what your journey would be and, of course, some good luck is definitely needed in everything.  

Would you please share some pearls of wisdom from the treasure trove of your experiences in the industry, the success mantra or tips for lawyers wanting to establish their own practices.

A couple of things that I have always thought have helped me are that humility, in this profession, and in every profession is very important. Today, as a father and also I see many youngsters, they all feel very entitled and when I started practice, we were trained to be far more humble, we were shown our place rightly-wrongly if we stepped out of the line. Hard work, perseverance, and patience—all of those are very important. There is no shortcut to success in any profession let alone law. I think those are the very key words and what comes your way and spending quality time doing a good job and not thinking whether corporate or litigation is the best choice or in-house or at a firm or your own practice—all are good choices. Whatever you do, give your best to it. 

Are you hiring, if yes, other than good legal acumen, what are the other important skills you’re looking for in lawyers joining your firm.

We are still hiring during the pandemic; we hired about four people this time. We did not terminate anybody’s retainer with us. We [only] let go of some people who wished to pursue in-house roles or otherwise. It is just a bend in the road and not the end of the road. So the hirings this year would be much slower but definitely you need to get fresh blood in to keep your practice alive. Some of the practice areas would be more focused than the others, [there will be] hirings in those areas. Another important thing is for lawyers to retrain themselves. There are certain practices, which have done extremely well in this pandemic despite everything. Employment law practice is one such area where termination and compensation comes into the picture. That’s an area not looked at very carefully by a lot of youngsters and I think that’s an important area. Real estate planning is another area where you need to look at things differently: how do they plan their force majeure clauses and other such things, so that would again be important. So, I would say we are definitely hiring, not as usual, but we need to continue looking at growing our practice. As a firm, we’ve taken a hit in terms of revenue but we look forward to investing in the future and look at many more successful years. 

Thank you so much for your valuable insights, Mr Singhania. Our viewers/readers are definitely going to benefit from knowing your thoughts on how to combat the ‘bend in the road’ and plan for the opportunities coming ahead.