In Conversation with Mr K Satish Kumar, Global Head—Legal & Chief Data Protection Officer, Ramco Systems
Mr Kumar, would you please tell our readers what motivated you to pursue law. You started your career as a finance and commerce professional. How did the transition towards a full-fledged in house legal role happen? What to your mind has been the biggest highlight of your legal career?
This is a very interesting question. Not many attorneys can boast about how they changed their career mid-way. In fact, in HR Parlance, changing career paths midway is not regarded very highly. But the story is completely different for me.
I am a commerce Honours Graduate with a Professional qualification from a premier institution in law and, in addition, I am a certified cost and management accountant (CMA) from the Institute of Cost and Works Accountants of India. My father and mother were particular that I should be a finance professional. I was in parallel pursuing my law too. In those years there were not many takers for law and fortunate for me I got an easy admission in law.
The initial thrust in my career was obtained because of my finance professional qualification in CMA. I joined my initial organization as a finance professional. But I had a general aptitude and bent towards the Legal Profession. As soon as I got an opportunity to shift careers to Legal, I did grab the opportunity with both my hands and accelerated my career in this path. I am very passionate about Legal and it had helped me stand firmly where I am today.
Well, now answering to your third query about my biggest highlight in legal career, I can name quite a few in my long stint of 25 years’ experience. Legal is always an application of an intelligent mind. The few that immediately come in the top of my mind are, the first being leading a very tough negotiation against a large Global Bank in a large deal worth over USD 200 Million in one of my previous organization. I was also involved in couple of critical ADR which helped the organization in recovering money and building the goodwill.
You are an award-winning lawyer with 25 + years of professional experience. It is said that success is easy to achieve but difficult to sustain. What has helped you achieve and sustain success over a long period of time?
It is often a misnomer to think that once we are successful we will continue to be successful. But it does not always work like that. Sometimes, once we achieve our goal or success we lose the hunger, we lose our edge or the drive which made us successful in the first place. After achieving success the performance plateaus, or possibly drops.
I have a passion for law and enjoy my work. I get up each day from bed knowing well that today is not going to be the same day as yesterday. I keep motivating myself to keep the arrow going upwards. I ensure that I give a booster dose to my learning every weekend. I write articles for various journals in the weekend and in the process learn new legal nuances. I feed my aspiration, reignite my desire, thus motivating me to drive and keep on going.
To sustain success, we need to keep on elevating our goals and benchmarks. For instance, the first benchmark may be to be the General Counsel of an organization. Then you elevate your goal to carve out a position for yourself in the Legal industry. Then you may want to brand yourself as one of the top GC in the Legal Fraternity. Be known as a renowned GC in various countries. This in turn helps and motivates us to keep marching in the path of success.
What does a day as Global Head - Legal & Chief Data Protection Officer at Ramco Systems look like? What are your roles and responsibilities?
Legal is a very interesting profile. For a GC no day is the same as the previous day. Business is so dynamic that it not only generates revenue but brings with it its own challenges and threats. Attorneys (in-house) are involved not only in generating revenue for the company but also their advice is taken to douse the fire or to take an aggressive posture.
But a typical day for me as GC of Ramco starts with the allocation of work between my very erudite and efficient legal team. Any pre-litigation strategy or Management advisory is usually done by me. Otherwise, my entire day goes with guiding the team in their work and interacting with various business teams across the Geography from USA, Europe, Middle East, Asia, Australia. Interaction with the Business Team across the Geography starts the request from the team in Australia early in the morning to finish the call with the business team in the USA.
Ramco is in the business of software products licensing and on cloud business model apart from payroll processing etc. The business models are different and the complicated problem comes uninvited. Further, we also participate in various bids/tenders. The attorneys get involved right from the bids/tender stage to execution of the Agreement. Hence, life as a GC is a very busy day from morning to evening. The roles and responsibilities as a GC of Ramco is very dynamic and challenging. It revolves around day to day routine work to advising on a pre-litigation strategy to advising on very strategic complicated challenges that the business team faces.
Your legal career has been nothing short of an inspiration for many aspiring and young legal professionals. Who are the mentors you have looked up to and admired? How have they helped you in shaping your career?
Well this a very interesting question. During the long stint of my professional career, I did come across many mentors and motivators. I ensured that I learn the strong points from each of them to mould myself.
In Ramco, Mr P.R.Venketrama Raja (PRV), Founder, Mentor and Chairman of Ramco is a very strong personality with very few words. He has been a perfect example through whom I learnt to keep myself cool in very tough situations.
Mr A.V. Dharmakrishnan (AVD), Non-Executive Director and the CEO of The Ramco Cements Ltd has been a great motivator. He is Mr cool and has a solution for any problem. I have learnt to keep myself focussed even in the worst of the situations from him.
Mr Virender Aggarwal (VA), the CEO of Ramco Systems Ltd is a leader with a next-gen foresight. He thinks technology and breathes technology. He is a perfect example of Leader and Mentor who knows the strengths and weaknesses of each of the employee at Ramco. There is a lot that I had learnt from him as a leader.
Apart from Ramco, I also appreciate the leadership qualities of Mr Arun Jain, the Chairman and Managing Director of Intellect Design Arena Ltd. He is a complete leader who is also an investor and philanthropist. I was very much impressed with Ullas Trust, formed by Mr Arun Jain – a social impact organisation working towards igniting less privileged young minds into realizing their true potential. I want to get associated with his social welfare measures and contribute to society in my own way. My association with Arun goes back to my Polaris days when I had really enjoyed working with him and learnt many leadership quality from him.
How did your team at Ramco Systems respond to Covid-19? Did your in-house legal department face any operational difficulties because of the pandemic? From LMS to document management systems, is there a tech toolkit every company can adopt?
Yes, Covid-19 was a big challenge that my team faced during the initial days. Suddenly, shifting the work base from office to home or elsewhere, but still continuing to support the same extent has been a big challenge. There were no physical meetings and all the meetings were changed to virtual meetings. The servers were also at Ramco office premises, and it was initially very difficult to access these servers. However, we did manage to overcome such difficulty and now have a seamless operation. We got used to working from home and it has in fact improved the productivity of the entire team.
The AI-based contract management tool is a very useful kit. Right from flashing the pending report every day to each of the team members to reviewing complicated documents through the AI system and storing it post-execution – it is a very dynamic model.
What are the governance and compliance risks unique to working in a next- gen global company like Ramco Systems?
Ramco Systems is present from US to Australia in all the Geographies. Further, in US we deal in defence sector which is very critical and niche to Ramco business. We face our own challenges working in such niche sector where the compliance requirement is very high. The expectation in these sectors are also very high. We are also present in a big way in Australia. The clients and the employees are all very conscious of their rights and Ramco has to be always on its toes.
The presence in various Geographies is in itself a very big challenge to comply with multi-country laws and regulations. Further the privacy laws in each of the Geographies are also posing its own challenges. I have to interact with attorneys from various Geographies to make our objective known and work with them. These are some of the major challenges that I face with respect to the governance and compliance risk.
What do in house legal departments of the future look like? Do we see technology disrupting traditional systems at work sooner than expected? How do you see legal compliance frameworks changing with the emergence of AI?
AI in Legal is not overhyped. It is here to stay. AI will be commonplace in legal work in the next decade. AI will soon analyse data to help it make predictions about outcomes of legal proceedings better than humans. AI can also help in predicting the future of a legal dispute. In fact, I have given my views and opinion in CNBC TV 18 on AI and its impact on the legal departments. You can read it in the following link
What are your views on pre-litigation strategies for in-house legal departments? Do we see more thrust on ADR mechanisms in the near future?
Satish: One of the most important factors in keeping costs down for litigation is a strong GC. The cost of any litigation depends on multiple factors like - the selection of outside counsel, the decision on how much work can be done in-house, thoroughness of discovery and research. At all points through the pre-litigation strategy, in-house counsel should be in communication with outside counsel and be apprised of major decisions. Active participation by the in-house counsel may reveal areas of settlement, and avoid unnecessary disputes and litigation.
ADR is a sensible, cost-effective way to keep corporates out of court and away from the kind of litigation that devastates winners almost as much as losers. Most of the corporates are going to adopt ADR which considerably saves time and money. Companies should learn to use ADR effectively. Companies which adopt ADR quickly and effectively will reap the benefits of lower cost, quicker dispute resolution and outcomes that preserve and sometimes even improve relationships.
In fact, at Ramco by adopting ADR we had converted many a pre-litigations situation into a business opportunity and monetised it. In my opinion, ADR is the best way to solve disputes.
Work from home brings unique challenges. What steps has your in-house legal department taken for addressing mental health and productivity issues amongst employees under your leadership? Do you see leadership becoming more flexible and sensitive towards their teams after the Covid crisis?
I am fortunate to have a very strong in-house legal team. Each member of my team carries more than ten years of experience and the legal team put together have over 60 years of hard-core legal experience. Each member of my legal team is capable enough to head a legal department of their own. Ms Priyanga Gunasekaran, Ms Sushma Vijayan Nair, Ms SV Prathima and Mr Ilayaraja from my team are each capable enough to Head a Legal Team on their own. In order to avoid the monotony of work or redundancy, I allocate all types of work to every member of the team equally.
I allow flexible working hours for my team and I give them full liberty to work at their own pace. I also protect my team from pressures and stress that the business leaders so that my team can work stress-free.
I know every family member of my legal team by their names. I participate in their personal and professional judgements. I ensure that the team members are in health mental state of affairs during their work. I do not want to be a strict leader and gives my team full freedom to work. I am not a micro-manager and give full freedom to my team to work. I project my team to the Management and recognize them and appreciate them for their efforts. I keep a transparent and open-door policy so that my team member can approach me any time. I ensure that all the decisions are participative in nature and do not enforce any decision on my team.
There has also been a case when the team member and their family are affected by covid-19. I had to extend whatever support is required through insurance claims and also keeping them motivated. I had been in constant touch with them to ensure that they don’t feel left out. I can understand their mental state of affairs when they are locked down and are isolated even from their family members. It is tremendous stress on their mind. They are part of my corporate family and it is my responsibility to make them realize and feel it.
Amidst a thriving corporate legal career, do you still find time for pro bono work? In your opinion, what steps do legal aid authorities need to take to improve the state of access to justice in the country?
During the long stint of my professional career, I have gained lot of knowledge. I am really thankful to my parents, my spouse (Mrs Kausalya Satish), Daughter (Ms Anusha Satish) and also to the society at large. The experience that I gathered is mainly from society. I owe to society. There is more misery in the world because of "Legally Illiterate" Person. People are not aware of their basic rights. Many people are taken for a ride. Even today, when I read the newspapers that there was a cyber-attack on British athletes, they were running helter and shelter not knowing what to do. Such type of scenarios prevails in society.
Every attorney should do their bit to the society by educating them. I spend close to three hours in the weekend giving counselling and meeting legally affected people. I give them advice and make them aware of their rights. This has helped them a lot.
Everyone in their lifetime has one or other legal problem. But everyone may not be able to afford the best lawyers in the world. That is where we can step in and make a difference. A piece of genuine advice, counselling, direction, opinion will make a world of difference to these people. For me it doesn’t really cost much. But it gives me immense satisfaction when I see the smiling face at the other end after my counselling or legal advice.
But I have to reach the people. That is when I decided to reach people through social media. Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Google were some of the mediums which I adopted to reach the people. I was surprised at the response levels. In a very short period, I had a fan following club of over 6000 people. People approached me with different problems. Some wanted to know the process to adopt a child, some wanted to reconcile with their spouse, property disputes among legal heirs, child abuse, workplace bullying or abuse, sexual harassment etc. I ensure that I give some time to the society. This has given me a lot of moral satisfaction.
Pro bono makes me happier. Participating on such activities also provide opportunities to make personal connections with people who share your interests. Indeed, social connection is the greatest predictor of happiness.
The very purpose of pro bono work is to assist those who desperately need help with something that’s really important, but for which they have no resources themselves. We are fortunate to be lawyers. We are among the lucky few to survive all the obstacles of becoming (and staying) lawyers. We are among the few who can make the legal system work for people who have nothing to give us but their gratitude.
It helps to pursue my own interest and passions while helping others.
During my early phase of career such pro bono legal work provided me a training ground. I was a junior lawyer earlier and did not have much autonomy for several years. Such Pro bono work in the initial phases of my career provided early opportunities for depositions, building client relationships, arguing motions, first-chairing trials and other valuable work experience to build skills and confidence.
Charitable and pro bono legal work provides me opportunities to meet people with very different backgrounds and interests whom I may not otherwise meet in my daily life. Fundraising for charities, serving as a board member for a non-profit organization and the like connected me with local business leaders and lead to new friends.
I am also happy to state that I have been recognized and awarded as the "Social Activist" in the year 2016.
What is your take on the notion of Work-Life Balance? What keeps you busy other than work? Tell us about your hobbies. What are your sources of creative outlet other than work? Any movies, work of art or books that have had a profound impact on you.
I am a strong believer in having a proper Work-Life Balance. I advise my team too that they should have a proper work-life balance. Having a proper work-life balance makes them happy and their family happy too. It is never a pride for me that I work or my team members work on a weekend or a holiday. When I or my team member work on a weekend it means that we are not able to manage our work during the working hours. In fact, I feel we should take pride that we are not “workaholic”. Workaholic makes me feel that either you do not have any other personal priorities or sometimes even you have been shunned by your family members. We should never let it happen.
But at the same time, if any criticalities arise in the office front, I am always there to extend my support, be it a weekend or a holiday. I also avoid sending any formal official mails on the weekend. I am not one of those persons who brag that I work on weekends or holidays and shoots mails around. It is very important to have a work-life balance to increase overall productivity at work.
Well, talking about my hobbies, I read a lot about related legal topics. Earlier, during my school and college days, I used to read fiction and detective books. But gradually, I shifted to related legal books. Now I write a lot on various legal and management topics for leading business journals like Business world. It gives me immense pride to state that I have got exclusive page as guest authors in Business World and CNBC TV 18.
My Exclusive page in Business World
http://www.businessworld.in/author/Guest-Author/K-Satish-Kumar-89649/
My Exclusive page in CNBC
https://www.cnbctv18.com/author/k-satish-kumar-5611/
I also write for Foreign Journals. This has in turn helped me to learn about the topics. I have also given various TV interviews to share my knowledge with society at large. I am also invited to various seminars across the globe to speak about various legal topics. These are some of my hobbies close to my heart.
What to your mind has helped you get to where you are and what advice would you have for others who want to achieve success in the legal profession?
I should be grateful to my parents to give me wonderful academics during my school and college days. I was raised in a cosmopolitan environment and I am a linguist. My educational background has helped me substantially to get me to the place where I am. Further, I should also be thankful to get the right opportunity at the right time. I am God-fearing and a strong believer in luck. I always tell that there more capable attorneys than me who did not get such opportunity and hence are not given the chance to prove their mettle. I am fortunate and lucky enough to get these breaks at the right time.
I will first congratulate all young lawyers to have chosen this wonderful career. Further, I will advise them that hard work is the key to success. There is no substitution for hard work. Legal is a vast ocean. One cannot master all the topics. Go with the stream where your heart lies. You can be a very successful attorney if you club your passion with hard work. Success will come knocking at your door. You can be a successful criminal lawyer, or a civil lawyer or a corporate attorney. You just have to follow where your heart beckons. Stick to that particular field and then master in your field. There will be no looking back. You will be a successful attorney in your chosen field within a span of ten years. You should always rub shoulders with professionals who are very efficient. You will be known by the company you keep. Further, you will also keep learning if you have a good efficient company. Always make it a point to learn at least one new legal nuances every day. No one is a master in this field. Each one of them are at different levels. So keep learning and keep enjoying your work. "Celebrate Legal".
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