In Conversation with Atul Juvle, General Counsel, Compliance Officer & Company Secretary—India & South Asia, Schindler India Pvt. Ltd
Mr Juvle, would you please tell our readers what motivated you to pursue law and what were the formative years of your professional career like. What to your mind has been the biggest highlight of your legal career?
Before I start answering your questions, I would like to thank BW Legal & you, for this opportunity.
My friends circle includes Gujjus, with whom I developed and sharpened my commercial acumen. So, I like and fit for banking or finance field. But while pursuing banking certification (CAIIB), the interest aroused in law while reading the NI Act and legal decisions affecting bankers. Interest for legal was further firmed up due to stagnation in bank employment (the era of 1985-90, when the banking sector was not so dynamic as it’s today)
I believe ‘biggest highlight’ is a journey and not a destination. So, after achieving one highlight, I moved to the next highlight. Fortunately, got ample diverse opportunities to work on, and while taking exposure, achieving the next highlight in career.
Recent ones, if I have to mention was last year’s hattrick - three recognitions- ‘In-house Lawyer of the year International’, Chief Compliance officer-2019’ and ‘GC of the year-Heavy Industries” respectively from ALB, HK, UBS Forum, & Indian National Bar Association. One more, deserves a mention, is, I am a member on ‘CII Regulatory committee’ for last three years.
You started your career as a qualified banker. What prompted you to transition to an in-house legal role?
I joined a bank, after graduation and completed banker’s qualification along with post-graduation. The interest aroused in law while doing banking qualification, stagnation in employment, pushed me to pursue further studies- in legal & CS field. Soon after completion of LL.B. & CS, I joined a private sector as Company Secretary. Joining TATA International was one of the milestones in my career, where a strong foundation was laid for ‘Ethics & Legal’. My two superiors at TATA International Ltd. gave me free hand in exposure as well as opportunity to work independently. This gave me confidence as well as courage to lead role of in-house counsel.
You have 30 + years of professional experience. It is said that success is easy to achieve but difficult to sustain. What has helped you achieve and sustain success over a long period of time?
True, success is easy to achieve but difficult to sustain. So, talking about sustaining success, I feel, three basic habits kept me going, year on year with comfortably managing survival as well as achieving growth–
Learning attitude- you will find at least one degree/certification, to my credit, every three / four years. This is also recommended as - 7th Habit of highly successful people, by Stephen Covey.
Setting Tough Targets- personally & professionally- This not only keeps you busy & going, but also keeps you fit to manage survival. Taking tough Targets, ensures, that you don’t enjoy celebrating minor achievements at the same level. One additional benefit is, even if you take longer than plan, people respect you.
Focused hard work- there is no substitute for hard work, irrespective of how much intelligent you are or whichever level or position, you are at. This is also confirmed in the book- “8 habits for high performance”.
What does a day as General Counsel look like? What are your roles and responsibilities as GC?
I follow the practice of weekly planning. So, set priorities for the week ahead, on Friday. We have five days to work and two balance days to adjust if the plan fails. Weekly planning habit, keeps you out of unwanted & avoidable stress of deadlines. The priorities are divided in five working days, with each day items, not exceeding three. This ensures me having enough time, for emergency matters cropping up at last minute. The day starts with checking legal updates including court decisions. This habit is inculcated in my colleagues too. The updates consist of general updates and specific updates relevant to our company business. If there are specific updates, then the same are shared in the legal team for review and discussion. We try to circulate relevant updates immediately by second half to all the concerned in the company so as to ensure awareness & compliance. Post updates, day proceeds with priorities set. I follow the rule of responding all the emails, same day. If something needs more time, acknowledgement receipt is sent with a defined timeline and the item is added to a weekly priority list. This practice has helped me a lot on scoring well always on ‘Internal Customer Satisfaction Index’. The day goes on with already scheduled calls, priorities. Before closing day, stock taking is done and pending items are carried forward. The weekly priorities are rearranged, whenever necessary.
Roles & Responsibilities as GC
Overall compliance of all the applicable laws to business, factory, CRD & overseas distributors. Legal- advisory, litigations- filing / defending. Code of Conduct- training, audits, investigation. Company secretarial compliances.
Your legal career has been nothing short of an inspiration for many aspiring and young legal professionals. Who are the mentors you have looked up to and admired? How have they helped you in shaping your career?
Like the majority of us, my first mentor was my AAI (mother), who taught me to remain happy and hopeful in all the circumstances. She used to say, if it’s not happy ending then it’s not the end. This has helped me to handle well my failures and even excel more when I failed.
My second mentor was Aba (father-in-law), who was instrumental in inspiring me for achieving more and more. This kept me to remain actively engaged in continuing education throughout my career, of course with the strong support of my better half.
Coming to my mentors in the profession, my first mentor in the private sector was my boss. When I left the bank and joined the private sector, I still remember his words my first meeting with him, ‘Atul, if the answer is NO, no need to come and tell me, you can go home and the company will ensure your severance reaches your home’. This was an emotional shock, but I comfortably survived, learning & working with this principle lifelong and developed a knack to find solutions to every problem. I developed my owned principle – it’s Never ‘No-Go’ but it’s always ‘Know & GO’.
I also took inspiration, from Industry leaders, one of them is Shree Dhirubhai Ambani -specifically on one aspect- Never remain satisfied at one level and when you achieve one level, start dreaming next level.
I also follow- Lee Iacocca, Ray Kroc, who proved to the world, that age is just number, to dream and achieve.
How did your team at Schindler India Pvt. Ltd. respond to Covid-19? What are some of the operational issues in-house company law departments are facing today because of the pandemic?
We went into the work-from-home model, one week prior to the announcement of countrywide lockdown. The subject was under discussion constantly, before lockdown, so we were placed better in handling the lockdown. However, we thought it will be temporary, which became permanent-temporary. After general lockdown, we were initially too busy in – checking the authenticity of the circulars/directions/messages received - its interpretations/ authority and applicability & scope. After about 2 /3 weeks, we moved to the assessment of the force-majeure impact on business contracts. By mid of April, we were ready, to effectively manage legal work in new normal. Operational issues induced by Pandemic, for us are similar to Industry colleagues which include- pending litigation proceedings as well as new filing. We are also successful in developing pre-litigation & mid-litigation strategies with the parties, barring few.
What do in house legal departments of the future look like?
Gradually, future legal departments will see 60 / 70 % activities done online through machine learning or artificial intelligence. The compliance system has already moved online, likewise, the legal function will move online too. . With the courts becoming comfortable working on the digital platform, the day is not far when majority, (if not all) litigation activities, including all types of ADRs, will move to the digital platform. Eventually, the majority of the litigation is expected to move to objective arguments & resolution. The efficiency of working will improve multifold. The speed with accuracy, of artificial intelligence, is amazing. Depending on cost-benefit-analysis, I feel there may be two classes- big set-ups will have their systems inhouse and small & medium set-ups may use external service providers. Large legal departments will need to have one tech-savvy counsel.
What are the governance and compliance risks unique to working in a multinational company?
The governance & compliance risks are the same for MNC or Indian manufacturing companies as the legal framework is the same for all. India is in the overall transformational phase, which is well reflected in changing legal ecosystem, over last few years. The managing compliances of constantly changing laws and creating an internal framework of compliance is one of the major challenges when you work on pan India basis. At present, Covid-19 has thrown new risks/challenges for all the industries, which we all are trying to mitigate.
How do you see legal compliance frameworks changing with the emergence of AI?
With work-from-home and legal system/administration, moving and working effectively on a digital platform, we can’t stop any more AI coming in as an aid to this change, first and then becoming a normal way of life in near future. Some part of work is already under AI, which will increase. The digital legal system working, brought to doorstep by covid-19, much faster than dreamt. This is going to boost the use of AI near future, which was estimated 3/7 years down the line.
What are your views on pre-litigation strategies for in-house legal departments? Do we see more thrust on ADR mechanisms in the near future?
With covid-19 restricting court / ADR work to urgent & important matters, for last more than seven / eight months and is expected to continue for few more months, the industries can’t wait for more to go for litigations. So covid-19 forced alternative is ADR / genuine negotiations formal/informal. We could record the early gains of pre-litigation or mid-litigations strategy. The mediation will become popular as the first step, soon, before litigation. Finally, a business must go on and not litigation, barring few bad disagreements
Work from home brings unique challenges. What steps have in-house legal departments taken for addressing mental health issues amongst employees? Do you see leaders becoming more flexible and sensitive towards their teams after the Covid crisis?
Work-from-home brings unique challenges of work-life balance, as everything is at one place, working hours initially stretched, due to availability of person at home. We at the company level made a policy on the same. Dark hours concept reduces good amount of unwanted discussions. Dark Hours concept is not calling employees between 8 PM to 7 AM unless there is an emergency. I follow the following process to remain connected genuinely with the Team members:
In addition to this Company has a facility of a confidential counsellor as well as effective grievance system.
I agree, leaders becoming more flexible and sensitive towards their teams, to control & mitigate covid-19 challenges.
What is your take on the notion of Work-Life Balance? What keeps you busy other than work? Tell us about your hobbies. What are your sources of creative outlet other than work? Any movies, work of art or books that have had a profound impact in shaping your personality?
Frankly speaking, Work-life balance concept is luxury for many, irrespective of you are growing or surviving. For both, constant extra mile efforts are a basic requirement.
Then why not enjoy, what we do? If we are not enjoying what we do, change the game or change the field.
My habits/hobbies outside the legal subject
I enjoy morning walk which keeps me not only fit but sometimes helps to strike creative solutions. On weekends watching movies, depending on mood & time available, coupled with singing karaoke / ZUMBA / writing articles keeps me more than 200% energised for eagerly facing Monday morning. I also do complimentary career counselling for younger colleagues, over the last eight years and happy to inform you, that the number has crossed 200 marks, recently.
I normally follow the rule of reading one book a month. On books reading- I read the same book, which I like, at least three times, at different intervals. Every time the learning is at a different level. My one of my favourite books is – ‘7 Habits of highly successful people’- Stephen Covey. A recent one, which I liked most, is – ‘8 Steps to High Performance- Focus on what you can change (ignore the rest) ’ by Mark Effron.
Normally I don’t miss my weekend activity of watching movies, which moved to web series’ in lockdown. This keeps me updated with the socio-economic conditions/changes. I can consider amending and repositioning my general views.
There are few movies specific to function/job, which one must watch to excel. If I start listing, it will be good in a number. A recent one, I liked & found inspiring as well as giving corporate work culture insights is ‘Ford v. Ferrari’. I also wrote & published a short article on the same, on LinkedIn.
What to your mind has helped you get to where you are and what advice would you have for others who want to achieve success in the legal profession?
Based on my experiences, for success in the legal profession as well as reaching top, I feel three basic qualities are a must. First two are – Integrity & Confidentiality- Integrity means the following honesty when nobody is watching. A simple difference in Honesty & Integrity- Following seatbelt rule & signal when Traffic- Police is monitoring is Honesty and following the same rules in the mid-night, when no one is monitoring is Integrity. Confidentiality must be more than or equal to at least 100%. These two basics lead to the formation of trust, which is the foundation of long term sustained growth. One must note, that each one is watched & observed formally / informally. Hence one has to guard his/her integrity & confidentiality qualities at all times.
Then comes keeping competency updated all the time- which needs constant learning attitude. The legal field is like the medical field, changing every time and those who are updated only will be able to survive and grow. I believe survival is a by-product of the growth mindset.
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