An Illustrious Journey In Law Featuring Senior Advocate and Member of Parliament, Rajya Sabha K. T. S. Tulsi

ASHIMA OHRI:   Sir, would you please take us down the memory lane and tell our readers what motivated you to pursue law, and how were the first few years of this glorious journey?

K.T.S. TULSI: What persuaded me to take up law is because I was a passionate debater in college. In Government College, Chandigarh, every time there was a debate anywhere, we would team up and land up there. We collected lots of trophies and we were crazy about debates, a bunch of us. So, I think the only profession that I could perceive where you earn your bread by spoken word was law. So, I went to law. During my time in the law department, there are two events that motivated me a lot. One was the time when I was the secretary of the Moot court society in the Punjab University, Department of laws. As the Secretary, I decided that we don't have enough time for 100 moots, so, at least let us have one moot every Saturday because then we call our society - Saturday afternoon moot society. In that moot, I used to write problems, and everybody else was given those problems one day before and then they could prepare and we would request one or two teachers to be the judges. So, I remember that a few of the students who did participate in moots went up to the Head of the Department and said that I should be debarred from participating in the moots. So, he says why? Because every time he gets the first price and he knows the problem from before, we get to know only the previous day. So, the Head of the department called me and he says that, well congratulations on the complaints about you getting too many prizes. He says, what should we do? I said don't disbar me from participating in the moots, you can bar me from the prices. So, that’s one thing that sticks in my memory. 

The other is, we were having a final moot court in 1970 and this was about the constitutional validity of section 498 of the IPC. And we argued passionately because same people used to argue everywhere. We also had plans to take the civil service exam, but that day, my course of the career took a turn. The Chief Justice of India was presiding over that moot and there was another judge of the High Court sitting judge, Justice Dillon. In the presidential remarks, the Chief Justice said to the entire audience that these students who have argued today are better than 90% lawyers in my court. Well, that gave us a great high, then we went to the lake and tore our admit cards for the civil service exam and threw it in the lake. We thought that we are truly going to earn our living through the spoken word. 

After that, I joined the senior Mr Sarin and Mac Sarin and I were best of friends, are best of friends. Mr Sarin had lots of cases. Every day we had to draft the grounds of appeal of two or three cases, we had to do the research, we would handwrite them and then we used to get them tied, make the corrections, we would give the brief to the senior. I think that was a great training ground. But, I joined them on 3rd July 1971, but in December vacations I told my friend, I'm going to be on my own. So, he says that, what an idiot you are, you don't know this profession and they just going to eat you up alive and don't get frustrated. I said look, if I am not going to make it as a lawyer I might as well fail rather than after 10 years. So, I'm going to jump into the sea, let's see what happens. I used to get one or two of the cases. 

I must mention that Mr Sarin was a very kind and very good senior. Every Friday evening, he used to invite us to his chamber, both Mac and me. So, he would hand over an envelope to me and then he would hand over the envelope to his son, Mac Sarin and we used to get a princely sum of rupees 50 per week, that was a salary. When I was on my own, I said I can stick it out and stay with my parents, what's the problem, I have a scooter, that was only two years before my father had bought one for me. The inspiration was that my father one day came home and announced that we fixed you up. I said, what do you mean? We fixed up your marriage with a very nice girl and we have already said yes. I said it's not you getting married. Why can't I meet? So, he says to me, “Shukar kar onne tennu nai dekheya”(be thankful she didn’t see you). Anyway, I was still protesting and started dialling my friend's phone numbers and announced it to them, and ended up in a celebration at the lake. But that created the pressure required to succeed and I became a workaholic.. I started writing a book. I would work 14 hours a day, and I still have my book, I can show it to you. This is the book that I wrote and this is Tulsi’s Digest of Accident Claims Cases. 

ASHIMA OHRI:  Oh Wow, Sir! What an iconic moment!

K.T.S. TULSI:  I thought that I will make a difference in the quality of law books and I started following the pattern of Corpus Juris Secundum in terms of the indexing, digest is all about indexing and the catchwords, to be able to reach the case that you need, without a problem. This took three yeas. 

Then my marriage also brought me good luck. I became a part-time lecturer. So, I ended up doing two things that are essential for succeeding. One is that for learning the law, it’s important that you write. You write a book and then they say, the second-best is, teach that subject, you will learn it. By teaching others, you also teach yourself. I became a part-time lecturer in 1973, I passed out in 1971. So, it was pretty good. We used to get 400 rupees as part-time lecturer's salary. I thought that I still had extra time because there were only two or three cases coming my way in a month. 

So, I started a lodger i.e. Chandigarh short notes. I thought lawyers can’t afford big commentaries, particularly the beginners. So, I can cover five times the number of cases in a smaller volume, they'll save money. I don't have my legal short notes over here but they are in my other house. That's how I had all the judgment on my fingertips. In the process of teaching, I had to learn; in the process of writing, I had to understand, get into the heart of the judgments, what is the art of writing those judgments. I couldn't afford to buy judgments, journals were given, judgments at a lower cost, but I couldn't even afford the lower cost. So, I used to borrow the file from the Bar Library at four o'clock, with a promise that it will reach them by 9:30 the next morning and I would browse through the judgment, select the judgments, 10-12 from each file, and my Stenographer was at home at six o'clock and I would give dictation of the catchwords. So, that’s how I guess I got rewarded. The Chief Justice, who had made that announcement openly that we are better and we thought that we would better do something. He appointed me the lawyer for the official liquidator, which meant doing about 50 cases a week. So, this was the first notebook that I made as an Additional Solicitor. I used to start with a new notebook every time because, without this notebook, I couldn't argue. Many seniors used to joke that we're going to steal it.

Watch Part 2 of the conversation.

Milestones and Anecdotes: From Earning Rs 50 to Rs 1 Cr - Featuring K. T. S. Tulsi

ASHIMA OHRI:   That's a really fine treasure there, Sir. Your handwritten notes, I think many would want to get their hands on it, as we speak.

K.T.S. TULSI: These were initial years. How did I get out of that? This is a cat and mouse game. How do you prove yourself until the clients come to you and why would the clients come to you when you are a rookie? So, I would write articles for newspapers, 1 out of 10 used to get accepted, but that was enough for a high, which would last another month, and then again I would start sending. But how did I get lucky? I got lucky with two of the events, Mr. O.C Mathur was the partner of J.B. Dadachandji. And lo and behold, one morning he came over and he says, Tulsi, we have some cases of the chairman of Lipton's, Mr Goodwin and in Punjab court, there are four cases, in Himachal, there are two cases and we want you to tell me what is the best course of action? He brought the complaint, whatever papers, I read them. I said that they will be quashed. He says, are you sure? I said I know the law backwards. So, he says, Alright! You draft a petition, I will come back in the evening and then I will take the train back to Delhi and we'll go from there, we'll pay you for drafting. I drafted the petition, and they took that petition to Calcutta, the headquarters was Calcutta and there was one, Mr Balai Ray, who later became the Advocate General, he was a Senior Advocate at Lipton. He said I want to meet the person who drafted this petition. So, they asked me to come to Calcutta. I went to Calcutta and he kept us waiting for two and a half hours. In the meantime, I later learned that he was rewriting the petition in pencil. When he called us, he says, this is what I have written. I want to tell you one thing, young man and i.e. in criminal law, it is more important to know what not to say than what to say. You don't spend an extra word in a criminal petition because it can be misinterpreted. So, that's one thing I learned from him. And we succeeded in getting all the cases quashed. So, my fee had risen to 1,100 per day. 

I mention these figures because it's important for people to know that youth is a struggle. And 1,100 a day was a princely sum. We had gone on a holiday to Mussoorie, when one Mr KK Sharma, the Chief Law Officer of Brooke Bond landed up there. And he says, warrants have been issued against our chairman and we want you to come to Shimla. I said I am on a holiday. He says you will be on holiday there also. We are going to make all the arrangement, you just have to go to the court for half an hour. When I still expressed my reluctance, he said we’ll double your fee. 

ASHIMA OHRI:  Oh Wow! 

K.T.S. TULSI:  So, we went and got a stay order. The event which changed the course of my career was, one evening, out of the blues, Mr KPS Gill lands up at my house. He was accompanied by his class fellow and my friend and he started discussing his case. There were three cases, against him including a murder case. So, he says, what do I do? I said go for quashing, this complaint cannot be entertained by the court. So, he pulled out a set of papers and he says but we have already applied and the High Court rejected our petition and we had gone to Supreme Court and the Supreme Court case is pending. You have a look, do we have a chance? So, I read that and said, this petition will be dismissed because you haven't raised the best grounds. So, he says what are the best grounds? I could rattle off the cases, Constitution Bench and this and that and they were all on my fingertips. Every day I used to be doing nothing else. He was so shocked. I said this is an incompetent petition. Then, while going, he says do you know who drafted it? I said I don't care. He said the former Chief Justice has drafted it. I said, but no, he hasn't raised the right grounds. Anyway, the Supreme Court also dismissed it with a direction they will appear and Mr Gill kept calling, those are the days we didn't have any other mobile phones. So, he re-sent his father to meet me and he says, Kanwar Pal wants you to come to Guwahati tomorrow. So, I went and there were four other lawyers in that case. They were four accused, four lawyers, and I was the lawyer for Mr Gill. I took the order of the Supreme Court and we went to the magistrate. I kept it in front of him. I said here is the order of the Supreme Court for compliance. He realized that he has no choice. That's how the magistrate understood and granted a stay on the arrest. That's all that we wanted. Once the stay was granted, we went on behalf of the another accused, who was not a party. That case gave me at that time, more than a crore of rupees. 

K.T.S. TULSI:   I was spending three days in a week over there, either travelling or appearing, Everybody wanted to engage me. These are the two things, I got lucky and I remember when I joined the profession, my father took me to Mr Sibal. Mr Hira Lal Sibal and my father were class fellows. So, Mr Sibal tells me, young man, remember one thing, Opportunity knocks at every door. But you have to be ready to grab it. If it goes, God knows when it'll come. So be ready. I think that made a lot of sense and that's what made me fight hard.

KRISHNENDRA JOSHI:   Sir, your career has been sort of an inspiration for all of us. Can you shed some light on who are the mentors that have helped you in shaping your career?

K.T.S. TULSI:   I had one mentor. Although he was my client, I learned a great deal from KPS Gill. I was nobody, he was 10 years older than me but the amount of clarity that he had for a police officer was rare and we were on equal footing. I was his advisor, but I had tremendous respect for him, the man will never lie and he was a voracious reader.

KRISHNENDRA JOSHI: Now coming to the current times, how do you see litigation changing post-pandemic and like body language and demeanour plays a very crucial role in criminal trials, then how do we conduct cross-examination effectively in a virtual setup now?

K.T.S. TULSI:   I think this is one of the positive aspects of the pandemic. I am every day arguing on the virtual court and I feel that the judge is much closer to me. I can watch his expressions. I can decide that this is the argument which he is not accepting. I can actually hear when they are conferring with each other. So, there's a hell of a lot of advantage in virtual court, much better than the real court. There is perfect discipline. Of course, there are bloomers going on, we haven't perfected the software or the hardware, but cross-examination will be an even greater advantage because of the way I can watch your expression and interpret his body language when you're so up close. I can't do that when he is in the witness box. 

The criminal trial is conducted in a very messy manner. The lawyers don't have the opportunity for honing their skills for cross-examination and all. Most of the time, 99% of the cross-examination is without forethought and you don't know, you're not sure of the answer and yet you ask a question. It can be disastrous for the case. But, like this, I think lawyers are going to be at an advantage. How much time do I save, half the day, I keep sitting in the court waiting for the matter, and then all of a sudden three matters will come together. This is a far better system, I hope we adopt it for good.  In cross-examination, you have to create a pattern, you have to do a lot of work and decide that what is it that you want a witness to say. You will stay away from that point and you will go on with relevant questions or with very easy questions. You build up a rapport with a witness, and then you slip in a question where he begins to trust you. You ask a question and sometimes you get awarded with an excellent answer. 

I don't agree with the aggressive lawyers who think that they can intimidate a witness, I don't agree with those lawyers who think they can intimidate the judge, that's not Advocacy. Advocacy means being a gentleman and being courteous always. We are in the case in pursuit of truth and let's not spoil the atmosphere because in that atmosphere neither the judge nor the witness nor the prosecutor nor the defence is going to gain.

Watch Part 3 of the conversation

Life Beyond Work - Featuring K.T.S. Tulsi

ASHIMA OHRI: Sir, how do you spend your time outside of work? 

K.T.S. TULSI:   About my hobbies, well my hobby is reading fiction, but mostly legal fiction. In Pandemic, I have managed to finish more than six books. 

ASHIMA OHRI:  Would any of them be John Grisham’s?

K.T.S. TULSI:   Yes, I read every John Grisham four times.

ASHIMA OHRI:  To be at the centre of all the criminal matters and yet finding time for more criminal reads, is so fascinating to know!

K.T.S. TULSI: Besides John Grisham, I would suggest to the lawyers to read my prison diary by Jeffrey Archer. It's not only prison diary one, prison diary two because he disclosed a lot of things which were going on in the first prison and they shifted him from that prison to another prison, and that's where he wrote another book, both bestsellers, but it only shows how corrupt is the system because liberty is such a thing. I would like young people to, again and again, watch Erin Brockovich, it’s very inspiring. 

ASHIMA OHRI:  What a movie and a message, indeed!

K.T.S. TULSI: There's so much you can do for alleviating injustice and hardship amongst the people. We have the same issues. John Grisham wrote about the Gray Mountain. We have grey mountains here. Why would the lawyers not take up these issues? They are socially relevant and they’ll be more than rewarded.  

KRISHNENDRA JOSHI: You have been part of so many notable cases on the criminal side, which has been your most memorable one?

K.T.S. TULSI:   You see, one is the constitutional validity of TADA, which was argued by me for two and a half months and nobody in the government believed that it will be upheld. They thought this is bad law, this is going to go. So, the parliament was actually planning to let it die by the expiry of the period. But when we succeeded, actually, there was more trouble for the government because the law had become very draconian because of the manner in which it was being enforced. There were so many, hundreds and thousands of people who were arrested and kept or detained and when the bail was granted again detained. So, the law has become very unpopular and it was allowed to die its own death.

ASHIMA OHRI:   Thank you so much, Sir!

Note: The automatic transcription has been lightly edited for a better reading experience. Some names and parts of the transcription may carry inadvertent errors that we are in the process of editing. Thank you for your understanding.